Intro
Contents
Introduction
I was going to title this post “A Swedish Surprise” but presumed it was something salacious. Thank you Urban Dictionary.
I was firmly in the camp of spending no more than $10 on an ethernet cable. After my review of the fantastic sounding SOtM dCBL-CAT7 ethernet cable, I wanted to survey a few more quality cables, preferably at a lower price point. All cables in this review were either purchased or borrowed from the community (Thanks guys!)
Along with a few cables in the $250-$600 range, a friend of mine mentioned the Swedish-made Supra CAT8 cable. A sub-$50 cable that’s apparently very popular in the Computer Audiophile community. Being an open-minded audiophile, I thought “It probably won’t compete but sure why not.”
Build
The first thing I noticed about the Supra ethernet cable was the tag with a golden string. There’s a handwritten name/ID of the person who soldered the cable. For some cables they’ve even included batch numbers so that they could backtrace time, parts, and personnel. Although I think it’d be difficult to screw up the soldering on this type of cable, I never knew this level of quality assurance was applied to ethernet cables. I think it’s a nice touch and speaks volumes on the length Supra takes to ensure the best craftsmanship.
The cable itself feels almost like any other generic CAT7 cable. Perhaps a bit stiffer.
One other thing you’ll notice is the distinct and innocuous color of the cable.
This is a conscious choice, offering a distinctive brand image, very typical Scandinavian Swedish and guides your awareness from the clean, sensible appearance to the astonishing performance that awaits beneath. We wish that our customers enjoy a sensational feeling that comes from knowing the true nature of performance under the surface, with a resemblance of the clean and calm Nordic water and ice.
Beautiful ain’t it? It’s also flame retardant so if your tubes ever catch fire and burns down your house, your ethernet cable will be safe.
Hey there Jay,
Seems like you’re site is becoming my number one source for audio news 🙂
I will soon setup my odroid c1+ running Volumio via Ethernet to stream Tidal and this cable will be my first choice.
Due to the restrictions of my home I will need to use ethernet over powerlines.
I was thinking of using 2 wire to Fibre converters (the second would act as Fibre to wire) before connecting the odroid with this Swedish beauty.
I hope to eliminate stray currents from the power lines.
Any thought or tips on that?
Keep up the good work!
Cheers
That would be an interesting experiment, although from experience with powerline ethernet adapters, depending on the quality of your lines, the signal might’ve already been compromised heavily before it comes out the other powerline adapter. Fibre converters are also prone to jitter and have their own sound. Worth a try though. Once you’re done testing with the adapters, take your setup over to your router area and listen there. If the delta is acceptable, you have something good 🙂
I’ll let you know how it works out.
Might be a while, since this weekend Im gonna build my first speaker 🙂
BTW thanks for your urban dictionary reference… Pervert 😀
Thank you for pointing this one out. I had just seen an add for a 3 meters Supra CAT6 cable. After reading this immediately bought it. It’s just between my NAS and switch. But I can hear a positive difference. For the CAT cable between switch and microRendu I already had a pair of Telegärtner connecters waiting. I’ve decided on Viablue cable.
Supra cables of all types are well worth an audition in your system. Used their speaker cable for many years, having bought it straight from Tommy Jenving himself! Will definitely be buying Supra Cat8 cables for my system Ethernet connections.
Hi Gents,
First of all, thanks for the positive response to our Cat8 Ethernet cable. We appreciate the fact that technology is not dead yet and that spending resources on performance rather than outer appearance still is first priority to you. It has to have an outer shell, why we made it as plain as we Swedes perhaps are. That is our burden of proof; how can we be so darn in-expensive?
While writing, we thought we’d add some info to our cable/-s and to the debate in general. Our driving force is to try to avoid any tuning at all. Any device or cable adding a specific, repeatedly detectable signature is not correct, because it will mask the true signature, i.e. the recording. What is correct is to keep as much of the modern household radiation and fields outside as possible. What is also correct is to acknowledge the well defined Ethernet standards for cable design to maintain maximal signal integrity. What is benign is to have a huge bandwidth headroom, allowing re-sending bit packages and always keep read buffer full. What is also worth mentioning is that there are some brands and models of routers and switches that provides metal housing for sufficient shielding and a quality standard named QoS (Quality of Service) that substantially improves signal integrity and reduces jitter. Now, noise does not affect binary code, does it?… Well we’ve done enough real world tests to identify what you’ve just established in this review; cables really do matter. Keep the signal clean and strong, and the DAC will thank you by converting the bit stream to real music with no signature other then the intended on the recording. If you have any questions to us, you’re most welcome to send a message on our Facebook page “Supra Cables”
Hi Supra Team Sweden, regarding “What is also worth mentioning is that there are some brands and models of routers and switches that provides metal housing for sufficient shielding and a quality standard named QoS (Quality of Service) that substantially improves signal integrity and reduces jitter.”
Which routers and switches can you recommend that offer the best signal integrity and lowest jitter?
Many thanks
Hi, Sean!
Sorry for not answering until now. Did not see your question until today, I’m afraid. There are numerous products available that will do a better job compared to the “standard” housed in plastics. Brands like D-Link, Netgear and TP-Link offers good products. Myself. I use TP-Link as switch; http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/TL-SG105.html. This one is cheap in Sweden, but does the job without any comments or remarks. However, if possible, replace the power supply to a better, low noise version. One gets however far by simply using the supplied power source and wind some of the thin cable through a ferrite core (3-4 laps, or more). By doing this the high frequency noise from the switcher is suppressed substantially and have very immediate and audible impact in sound quality. There is a meaning among the industry and enthusiasts, that some Ethernet and USB cables display more high note (treble) resolution. This is a quite interesting opinion. When I personally (I’m a real hifi-geek) and we at Supra really “blue-print” a cable according to the respective digital interface spec and when I made the huge revision of screening and filtering RFI (both wire- and airborne) in my rig, the result was lowered overall high note energy. So I’m not quite sure that the openness and airiness in digital playback always are in the recordings. I suspect that this sibilance may fully or partly derive from RFI, but masks very nicely and is perceived to be part of the sound. When I replaced every single Ethernet cable, also the one’s that did not transmit music files to not allow RFI entering through any backdoor, the immediate reaction from me was, “where’s the treble”? I had to reset my preferences a bit and start listening again. Now, listening with a new mind-set the treble was far cleaner, thus lower in level/energy, but carrying much more micro-dynamics and sound stage information. A cymbal sounded just the right amount of metal, I could instantly separate a Paiste from a Zildjan from my titanium domes. Now, a couple of months after doing this easy and not very costly revision, I have far better detail, can determine the great difference between the recordings ambition of high note energy. Some recordings especially modern pop music, show up a very obvious treble energy, while other productions is far more subtle. Prior to my revision, the level of high note energy did not change as much as today. Sorry for making this a novel, but I find this discussion highly interesting. Feel free to contact us on your journey. Use the mail address “stefan@jenving.se”. I am and we are highly interested in getting updates on the progress.
Best regards,
Do you Wind the Ferrit to the ethernetcable or the power cable off the Switch? What Kind off powersuply do you recommend für my d link Switch
Thank you
Johannes
Jumping in again about routers, I found this interesting. Needs however an optional power supply. Metal housing. QoS. And a higher grade power readiness thanks to the PoE capability.
Best regards,
https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-x/
Hi,
I have now changed all my Ethernet-cables to Supra with better sound quality as a result. I also got the the mentioned Edgerouter X. It is powered with the PoE-adapter that came with the Ubiquiti Networks UniFi AP AC Lite at the moment. What LPS have you had success with? Could a iFi iPower maybe be a alternative?
Hi Jay,
I have the Ultra stack just like you. I already run Supra Cat8 from the modded switch to the modded sMS-200, and I agree with your assessment of its merits.
I was intrigued by your recommendation of putting the Supra cables way upstream. But there are logistical challenges. Going upstream of the modded switch, these are the segments I have:
* Roon Core server (bridged) to modded switch: 25ft of generic Cat 6a
* Wall Outlet to Roon Core: 10ft generic Cat 6a
* In-wall wiring to outlet at router location: ~50ft of generic Cat 5e
* Router to wall outlet: 10ft generic Cat 6a
* Modem to Router: 3ft generic Cat 6a
* NAS to Router: 3ft generic Cat 6a
Following your recommendation, I think you’re suggesting I replace these segments with Supra:
* Modem to Router: 3ft generic Supra Cat 8
* NAS to Router: 3ft generic Supra Cat 8
Is this what you’d recommend?
The price for bulk is about $8/meter. So $240 for 30 meters. That’s cheaper than some 1 meter audiophile-grade cables lol. I personally would rewire the whole thing at that cost. Especially if you have an Ultra stack. It could only sound as good as the weakest link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supra-CAT-8-STP-cable-bulk-for-DIY-Made-in-Sweden-BEST-FOR-NETWORK-AUDIO-/401348213868
Unfortunately not feasible to rewire, especially the long runs. So how would you cherry pick?
Replace the cables closest to your streamer. From my testing, you’ll hear the qualities of that cable more.
I’ve just replaced my cheap cat7 cable from my switch to my steamer with this Supra cat8 and I’m delighted with the results. A hard edge that I was hearing has been reduced and I now have a smoother more detailed sound. I’m very new to streaming and I wounded if I’d reap any benefits from running a dedicated cat8 from my switch back to my router? At the moment, due to hifi location in my office, my system shares a cat7 from router to first switch which feeds computer, Tv, stb, bluray etc, cat7 from first switch to second switch for streamer only, supra cat8 from second switch to streamer. If I stand to make gains from running a 20m supra cat8 straight back to my router from my streamer switch, I’ll put an order in tonight! Most of my listening at the moment is via Tidal HIFI. Nas will be added at some point in the future. I’m keen to hear your thoughts.
Hi,
Routers, switches… Is there any advantage to introducing these in the signal path? I have a 10m run of Supra going from a dedicated Intel Gigabit CT PCI-E Network Adapter on my PC directly to my streamer. The adapter is bridged with my router for internet access. FWIW router is powered by an iFi wall wart. I’m still evaluating sound characteristics vs shielded BJC with floating ground and some generic Cat-6 (Monoprice I think). I had to remove the metal jacket on the Supra because it was introducing a hum. But I’m not blaming the Supra for that as I also had to lift the ground on on my DAC’s power cord for a similar problem.
Anyhow, for now I can say that the Supra is a well built, well packaged, nice looking cable with obvious attention to detail. I need to do some more testing to see how I rate its sound.
I’m currently using a newly acquired Raspberry Pi based DigiOne player as a streamer. For the money I’m quite impressed with the SQ of this little thing. I prefer it to the well reviewed sMS-200.
Introducing a clocked switch into the signal path did improve sound quality quite a bit (I’m referring to the SOtM trifecta). I’ve tested with and without and it’s clearly an audible difference. More clarity, coherence, grip, and quieter. I do have a DigiOne on hand which I’ll be testing very soon.
I was wondering if Jay or Supra Team Sweden has a DIY guide for connecting the Supra cat8 connectors onto the cable. Otherwise I’ll be on the lookout for the Telegärtner connectors. I have the Supra Ply 3.4 in my set and would like to add Supra cat 8.
These are very helpful information on cat8 ethernet cable. I am totally unaware of it. Cat8 ethenet cable is a great product for high speed internet benefits from running a dedicated cat8 from my home network. Thanks for sharing..!! Visit: https://bit.ly/2BiJwty
UPRA Cat 8 is one stage ahead by giving a future-confirmation link supporting up to 40GBASE-T over a solitary link. It is in reverse perfect with standard Cat 6A. Supra Cat 8 is ended with a change of the broadly utilized RJ45 to have the capacity to help the outrageous execution that Supra’s link gives.
How did the purist compare to the Supra?
How do y’all sleep at night? Surely the author as well as all the commenters here are just people interested in selling this rubbish to fools who don’t know any better and have too much money?
Ethernet is not in the _signal_ path. It transmits digital data and it doesn’t matter if the cable cost you 2 bucks or 2000, either your data makes it through or not. It still only gets converted to the analog signal going to your speakers at the point of your sound card. Please stop wasting your money, words, and money on ridiculous audiophile products. Invest in good speakers, room treatment, a good sound card, and lossless audio. All the other audiophile products at 98% pure nonsense that make no different over the same thing at 1% the price.
I’m sure I’m wasting my time commenting this here, but I need it off my chest.
How does it work?
Guys come on, don’t be sheep, transferring digital data doesn’t work like this… It either works or it doesn’t, there is no quality difference between cables except speed.
If you are getting artifacts in your audio then look at your DAC, end of story.
Agreed. It always astonishes me how many people review digital transmission cables as if they were carrying analogue audio. They just don’t understand how digital works and will attempt to argue that one cable is better than another sonically. It’s all psycoacoustics: you spend a couple of hundred on an audiophile ethernet cable and you’ll hear a difference, only because you need to justify to yourself that you haven’t just wasted your money. Problem is the science just does not support the difference you’ve just heard. It’s all in your mind. I’ve been a recording engineer for 35 years and do you know how many expensive audiophile cables are used in the studios I work in? That’s right – absolutely none, because we know better than to fall for the snake oil salesmen and product reviewers like the one.
As someone who has a degree in Computer Networking, this is utter horse shit. No, this cable will not magically make your music sound better – the packets that comprise the audio stream will either arrive, or they will not. No more, no less.
Anyone with even the mist BASICS understanding of computer networking could tell you that this cable will make no difference to how audio sounds. The reviewer is merely describing the placebo effect.
I’ve probably done more in the computer networking space than most (Cisco firewalls, setting up VPNs for hospitals, departmental subnetting, etc). In those applications, the cable doesn’t matter. Especially with reliable protocols such as TCP/IP.
But in the audio space, it’s more than just zeros and ones. There’s jitter, noise, and timing. Music is real-time and the human ear is able to hear very minute differences. Depending on the cable, this noise could affect the analog portion of the system – which is audible.
For a more technical explanation: https://audiobacon.net/2017/09/18/curious-cables-usb-review/
An UTP cable is a very simple device. You either have zero packet loss with unmeasurably small jitter (signal transfer is a purely physical process inside the cable, what introduces delays are the hardware and software on both ends), or your cable is broken. As someone in the networking field, I’m sure you’ve seen countless sh int outputs, where the packet and byte counts were so large it’d be tiring even trying to count the digits, yet all the error counters were zero, all with cheap UTP cables. If your experience matches mine, then I cannot understand how you are able to defend the notion that different cables that adhere to the same CAT-x specification can have measurable differences affecting data transfer. (Or that using a higher level cable that’s necessary is going to change anything.)
That said, if you really believe jitter is that important (are there no buffers on the receiving side?) then you should look at the software side first, as only very specialized operating systems would be working in real time mode, with the rest adding enormously large jitter. If you’re done with that, you can start tweaking the NIC/driver, to make sure every single packet gets transferred instantly without being buffered anywhere.
Wouldn’t a network switch, or the Ethernet controller chip be the MORE likely candidate to cause of jitter then the cable? Or am I about to find out there are ‘Audiophile grade’ network switches, and NICs that are nothing more then some Realtek chips.
I’m more surprised you wouldn’t blame things more on DPC issues with Windows. It is a well documented issue with many NICs (mostly wireless, The wireless N6205 from Intel being a big culprit, when downloading at higher speeds.) These kinda issues are not caused by the cable, but simply the way Windows handles scheduling and interrupts, and are 100% software issues, and can cause very noticeable results.
Ethernet cables do not affect audio quality. They affect whether the audio data gets from A to B, with no effect on quality. Either the data gets through or it does not. This article and those commenting are attempting to sell you a product you do not need for a ridiculous price. An ethernet cable worth less than $10 will do the same job. Do not be fooled.
How stupid are you? Bits are bits. 0010010 at the beginning of the cable is still 0010010 at the end.
OMG what a bunch of deluded morons. TCP/IP is a DIGITAL network. Unless you’re using faulty cable or network equipment, the packets arrive just the same. Get help.
And just when did audiophiles start streaming their music? Last time I checked they were using 200 MB FLAC files for each song.
What a bunch of morons… who are 100% sure of something they have never tried!
My degree is “only” in Civil Engineering, but when I swap out an Ethernet cable (or switch) for a “better” one, and the sound is more spacious, or the stringed instruments or female vocals have more timbre, or (not subjective) I hear backing vocals or rhythm guitar that I actually didn’t hear before – the cable did make a difference.
If you just listen to MP3s through your $10 earbuds – who cares about cabling or anything else. But if you have $5K, or double or triple that, invested in a streaming system, and plenty of people do, it is easy to tell the difference when you swap out cables, power cords, interconnects, etc.
Different is subjective, and not always better. But if strings sound more real, to everyone listening, that is not that subjective. When you hear instruments you didn’t hear before, that is not subjective.
If you have a good headphone of speaker system you owe it to yourself to invest a few $$ in an upgraded Ethernet cable. Then you’ll be posting, “OMG, I was wrong! I can’t explain why, but I do hear the difference…”
Are we morons for not using homeopathic medicine as well? I’ve never tried those (and never will, I really don’t have any faith in sugar pills), but it’s true that they actually work: there’re papers describing how placebo medicine actually makes a measurable percent of patients better. (And the more invasive treatments produce greater results.)
I suggest you ask a friend to do a blind test, randomly replacing cables while you listen, and see if you really can figure out which cable is which. Until you’ve done such a test your personal report is worthless, due to the psychological effects above described.
” When you hear instruments you didn’t hear before, that is not subjective.”
You should at least read about what words subjectivity and objectivity mean.
Supra Cat 8 Network Patch Cable – Astonishing speed and accuracy! … HDBaseT is transmitted over 6A up to 100 m (328 ft) long, with 8P8C modular connectors of the type commonly used for ethernet local area network connections. From Cat 6A to Cat 8 the step is four times the bandwidth.
I’ve just bought the Supra Cat8 based on your review.
Well, what a disappointment! The cable sounds too exciting and has a spike in the treble, making the music bright and forward.
The Chord C-Stream for the same money is much better!
And I’m not the only one in hearing that. On other forums some people also say that the Supra Cat8 is quite bright.
We did try this cable on multiple systems, and none of us thought it was bright – or exciting. Out of curiosity, which components are you using? But I am glad you found something that works for you at around the same price point. I’ll try to get a C-Stream in.
Thanks for the reply, Jay. I’ve tried the Supra again in my system and it sounds OK now. The Chord C-stream is more detailed and at first impression that seems better, but listening longer the Supra seems more balanced now and slightly less lean.
Supra PLY, Classic 6, EFF-IX & cable reviewed here have the same common trait. Veiled, bright top, smooth & uninvolving mids.
Would adding a 1 meter supra 8 between my router to a Roon hub, then usb connected to an Ayre Qx-5 /20 DAC make a difference ? My router is brigdged off my Comcast modem and the cabling between the router in my basement and the router connecting to the wireless router ( packedge) is cat 6?
Yes, it will.
All my Ethernet now Supra.
does this apply to mesh wifi routers that are then connected to switches then PC/Streamer? My plan is to change out cable from modem to router which will go thru wifi to my mesh router. Then mesh cable to switch would be replaced as well. Then also my cables from switch to PC and Streamer. Should I skip modem to router since it will be a wifi signal? or should I stick to my plan and just replace all the cables on both sides of wifi mesh?
Using An Aqua Acoustic La Diva dedicated transport feeding Aqua Formula x HD DAC with its latest upgrade [ analog board] the Supra Ethernet with field connector comes with transport when bought. Now the Supra Cat 8 without field connector [ snaps in like a balanced connector has brought new life with better tonality and harmonics. A huge improvement over stock Supra cable.
I do not stream using the Innuos mk3 server. IMHO the router is the issue. Then the Ethernet cable. I need a better router. HELP !!
This guy is 100% sponsored by the manufacturer or reseller. Totally waco.
Pure nonsense.
Nope.
If you feel your cable is inferior, run it through a DSX-5000 or newer cable certifiier. It does a full spectrum analysis on the cable and generates a PDF report. If there’s something to be seen on a cable. It will be seen there.
Yeah DSX 5000 thing that won’t work. Because true cat 8 is 2000MHz, and the 5000 only tests up to 500mhz, because that’s what 6A is go for. So this Cat8 cable is likely a scam, which apparently doesn’t matter to people on here.
Jay, I’m glad that you’ve found a wonderful writing niche. That takes a lot of work, and careful tailoring of your content. I am curious about one aspect of your testing process. Have you tried having someone else switch cables for you, and keeping them out of sight? Your articles focus so intently on the audible aspect of testing, and I’d hate for you to be fooled by outward appearances.
Hey Joe,
Yup, been doing this for too many years. Seen all the eye rolls and faces of disgust. But I’ve demonstrated cables to sound engineers, electrical engineers, non-audiophiles, etc – and they all heard differences. They weren’t always positive differences, but they were there. And you don’t need golden ears.
Naysayers and trolls will always exist. It makes the world more interesting. 🙂
Best,
Jay
I know why you think the Supra cable sounds better. It attenuates the signal, removing noise but also removing some high frequencies in the sound.
The result is less a less dynamic, smooth sound. A cheap, standard cable doesn’t interfere with the signal, as it should be.
Hi, Will video quality streaming also be significantly improved with Supra Cat8+ Ethernet cables ? Netflix, Amazon Prime, Roku?
I honestly don’t think these cables improve video…but will impact audio. Since pixels on a screen has to converted to RGB anyway. It’s a defined wavelength that can be measured with a colorimeter/spectrophotometer. Sound, of course, is a different beast.
Hi Jay,
Thanks for this review. What would your idea/experience be on combining Supra8 with Telegartner RJ45 plugs? I’d prefer this instead of the original cable, cause then I can integrate the cables more neatly in my house, with tighter fit.
I still haven’t made the cables…but will do a comparison soon. I have the connectors on hand.
I also purchased supra cat 8 but found it to harsh. Purchased a netgear switch, and installed it with a ferrite core. But why dont i get the stereo wideness and depth and loseness from the speakers i had with the cheapest vivanco Bangladesh Made cat 5e utp cable?
Music with supra and netgear installeren sounds flat narrow and totally not open. What am i doing wrong?
What a load of nonsense.